Thursday, July 7, 2016

- About that "Other" Shooting...

With regard to that other shooting, the one in Minnesota, I'd say that looks arguably worse for the cop. There is no exonerating video, and if the facts are as stated (always a BIG question with the media today) then this shooting might be considerably less justified. Charlie Cooke (who I usually but not always agree with on gun matters) has some useful things to say about it here.

I have friends who are cops. In my experience they tend to be guys of more or less average intelligence who have chosen to do a potentially dangerous job. They are not brain surgeons, but they are not usually dunces either. If it actually turns out that this is that exceedingly rare circumstance where the narrative doesn't instantly collapse the minute the facts come out, then I don't think we should be letting him off easy. Cops may be average guys, but the responsibilty they bear is not.

But it should not pass your notice that we've heard a great deal about the 'injustice' of these cop on black shootings, and almost universally, it turns out that all the outrage is based on a lie. Trayvon was trying to kill Zimmerman, Michael Brown never had his hands up and was trying to get the cop's gun from him, and most of the racial injustice BLM points to turns out to be totally ginned up by BLM.

Had they not been so loud and insistent in their lies, I think it would be much easier to get Americans on their side when an actual shooting of questionable justification occurs. It's true that cops can sometimes be in the wrong, and might even be racist. But so long as you're accusing everyone who puts cream in their coffee of exhibiting anti-black racism, it's going to be hard to get people to accept that fact.

8 comments:

Muzzlethemuz said...

Well, tonight's shooting of ten police officers in Dallas should put a new spin on this. Of course having a recalcitrant, Muslim-sympathizing, aggrieved black leftist in the Whitehouse has nothing to do with this. It's all because of latent racism in LE's ranks. Whatever.

TimH said...

It happens I was in a CCW refresher class yesterday and the instructor hadn't yet heard about this event. Part of the regular curriculum, however, is how to deal with traffic stops when you're carrying. One take-home lesson from other tragedies has been that before taking your hands off the wheel you should probably tell the cop where you're wearing the gun. When he asks for your license you need to VERY SLOWLY reach for it. We all want to go home at night unpunctured...

Now the professional dividers have stirred up a mess that reminds me of 1968.

Hell_Is_Like_Newark said...

Right now it is claimed that the dead guy in Minnesota.

1. Informed the police officer that he was carrying concealed (I know in PA you have to do this).

2. Told the officer he was reaching for his wallet where his ID is.

3. Was shot when the officer told him "not to move", but instinctively put his hands back up. The officer then shot him 4 or 5 times.

The background on the Minnesota guy so far has nothing bad (unlike that gawd awful POS that is now being deified in Dallas). Steady employment, was a legal CCW holder, been at the same job for years, worked at a school...

The more I read about it, the more I this looks bad on the cop involved. It sort of reminds me of stories of cops being really rough on CCW holders during the early days, when states were first becoming "shall issue" (in particular blue states).

Hell_Is_Like_Newark said...

Well... maybe the Minnesota guy wasn't an angel after all...

http://gotnews.com/blackliesmatter-philandocastiles-side-bitch-lied-gun-smoked-weed-kid-car/

TimH said...

Doesn't matter what kind of guy he was. DON'T SCARE THE COP. Any sudden move does that. A real tragedy for all involved.

Muzzlethemuz said...

As I have written in previous posts, I am a retired LEO and I was scared plenty of times and I didn't shoot. I have also taken plenty of guns off of people and it's all about controlling the suspect/scene and probably a little luck thrown in in my case. My general impression is local PD's don't get the heavy immersion into use of force/4th amendment that the feds do nor do locals have to contend with federal A/USA's that hold you to the highest standards in such cases. I was under no illusions in my time that pulling that trigger was a last resort and could be a career ender as it was for several of my colleagues across our agency - not that they were bad shoots but because the ensuing politics, civil suits and notoriety that inevitably arrises from such events played havoc with their personal lives and emotional well being. Regardless, let's wait for the facts to come out. There's a process here and it generally works regardless as to whether or not the President, his AG and BLM would like to assume otherwise.

TimH: I pulled over a number of cops in my time and people with guns in the car who didn't tell me and I only found out later due to SIA(search incident to arrest), etc. Every cop should assume the contactee has a gun on them or in the vehicle. I went through Basic and Advanced training in Brunswick, GA and when we did role playing the instructors often had the role player drive into the scenario with a red gun up on/in the dash, tucked into the console, etc. Those of us from the northeast and west coast often had a heart attack and were reprimanded by the instructors for over-reacting to an event which in Georgia, is an everyday occurrence for police there.

However, I had previously worked adjacent to some reservations out in Arizona and in rural AZ you can expect the contactee to be inebriated, no DL, no insurance with an unregistered gun in the car and they were let go again and again with a verbal warning b/c the DOI officers I worked with had no means of processing or dealing with these people. That's a fact. That happened. I saw it and participated in it first hand. A similar offense in NJ or NY would lead to likely felony charges and/or a very unpleasant use of force scenario b/c the police there, taking the cue from their legislature, act like fascists. That's really too bad and it is, I have to believe, part of what's going on here in this national debate. I'm a retired LEO but I'm foremost an ardent supporter of a strict interpretation of the US Constitution and as political jurisdictions get further and further away from adherence to Constitutional prescripts, you can expect the police to go increasingly the way their East German counterparts. I can assure you their "progressive" paymasters will see to it.

I have settled permanently in the western US and about two years ago the Sheriff from my and an adjacent county wrote letters to Mr. Obama explaining that they would not be enforcing anti-2nd A edicts coming out of his Whitehouse so... my hope for this country lies in its rural constituencies and everything lying between NY and LA. We seem to have less crime, less violence (bar fistfights occasionally during the rodeo), and less liberals... Hmm, I wonder if there's a correlation in all that?

TimH said...

Oh, I'm not trying to exonerate anyone. Just looking for the take-home lesson. Even if that cop had a body camera showing he was completely righteous he's screwed for life and the other guy's dead.

The one (almost) good thing that's come out of the Dallas event is that some of the dividers are having to tone down.

Muzzlethemuz said...

I concur and appreciate the opportunity to hear about how this looks from the private citizen/CCW holder's point of view. I take bitter solace from all of this. RFNJ and blogs like it have posited a view, for years, that we're a lot closer to the abyss than the media, politicos and "The System" would have us believe. Civility, indeed, civilization, is a thin veneer and this may be what it looks like when things start going to hell. Perhaps we're in a parabolic dip of some sort but for many reasons I see structural issues going on here that indicate our decent is terminal.