Thursday, January 12, 2017

- Concealed Carry In NYC: Part2

A friend who is also a gun owning NYC resident, sent me this article which is pretty clear in what it says, but only muddies the water for NYC Concealed Carry even further:

“My legislative intent is to ensure a non-resident carry permit is recognized, and I’ve confirmed this with legislative counsel and Judiciary Committee staff,” Hudson said.

Many gun owners in states that use a “may issue” permitting process, such as California or New Jersey, are not able to obtain concealed carry permits from their home state—even if they’ve passed a background check and met the training requirements—since the final decision in those states is left at the discretion of government officials. However, those same gun owners may be able to obtain a non-resident permit from a state with different gun laws. Under Hudson’s proposal, that permit would allow them to carry across the country—including in their home state.

I know I'm contradicting my first sentence here, but I think I can see how this is going to go. I think what will happen is, if you have an non-resident permit (like me) you can carry "a legally owned firearm" anywhere. The hiccup in New York will still be getting your hands on a legally owned gun, and the anti-gunners in NJ will simply be out of luck, since they put all their eggs in preventing carry, not ownership.

If you try to carry your firearm in NYC with a non-resident Virginia permit, I expect the local officials will arrest and prosecute you under local law, claiming that while you were carrying legally, the gun itself was in New York City illegally. But like I said, the courts will certainly spell if out for us with the NRA on one side, and Mike Bloomberg and the Cities of NY, Chicago, LA, Boston and San Francisco on the other.

So the legal recipe for carrying for NYC residents will be obtaining a premises permit (6 months, endless confusing paperwork, sky high fees, legal representation etc) and then obtaining a Virginia, Florida, Nevada, or Arizona carry permit. None of that is stated in the law, or the article, so there is still a small chance that a Virginia non-resident concealed Carry permit is all I would need, but I wouldn't want to be the guy who tests that case.


ikaika said...

As much as I want to believe, the possibility that the resurgence of states rights may prove to be an obstacle. As long as you have liberal run state legislatures and liberal governors, NY, Illinois, NJ, California, will not interfere with the laws of the city-prisons of NYC, Chicago, Newark, LA, SF etc... It will take a series of test cases and the infringing govts will all fall back on state sovereignty. Nationwide reciprocity won't happen in our lifetime. I would urge most sane people to vote with their feet and abandon these places as I did. If Sessions executes his office in accordance with the rule of law, then DC and Chicago will be forced to obey the court decisions. That might be what needs to happen first. Because of the FTL baggage claim shooting (it was islamic terror and the FBI dropped the ball) there are FL politicians howling for "common sense gun laws". One of my co-workers regurgitated this mantra. I asked him to define "common sense". In the minds of the leftists, common sense is ability for the govt to pick and choose who can own weapon and limit that weapon to specific people. In other words disarm the populace.
Same idiot commented that the US Constitution was outdated because of 2A. I asked him if he read and understood the USC. Nope because its old and outdated. I told him because of 2A we remove the threat of military coup unlike the countries my co-workers have emigrated from.
These are supposedly "educated" or the top percentile immigrants from Spanish America. These are the guys with families that own thousands of acres of farmlands, estates around the world. They fled from chavez and corrupt govts across Spanish America and come to USA only to suggest that our constitution is outdated and the president (Obama) should be allowed to rule by fiat!.
This is the emerging voting block in red states. Oh these same guys brag that they illegally possess firearms in their native countries for safety. They come to USA and its like "we need a chavez!" something in the water?

Tom said...

It's funny you say so. I actually asked a liberal lawyer about this and he said that "It will never happen." But here's the thing, he couldn't tell me why. He said it would simply be a reflection of the local political will, and there doesn't really have to be any actual legal foundation. He thinks the local pols will simply ignore the law and throw people in jail.

While that does sound to me like an accurate reflection of how people feel about this issue in New York City, I kind think they're missing it. Yes, New York City Liberals hate (despise, deplore... insert your over the top expression of disgust here) guns and the people who own guns. But the pols have always had to have at least a varnish of legality over that hatred.

The simple fact is that the Democrats no longer have a workable solution to prevent this law from being passed at the federal level. As a legislative accomplishment it's a gimme for team Trump, and I think it would buy him enormous goodwill among his supporters, even if it even further causes his enemies to despise him. I think it's going to happen, and happen pretty fast - like before easter. But that's when the drama really begins. Ex post Lawsuits are really the only option available to the Dems, but they'll be sending those lawsuits to courts that could very well be largely controlled by Trump appointees. Remember, there are a TON of lower level appointments he's going to be making, not just the SCOTUS. So many that my only question is: "Can he find enough truly good candidates to fill them all?"

If the law and the courts say it's legal to carry a gun in New York but the New York police arrest people for it, I can very easily imagine protests where 20,000 NRA members from Kansas, Iowa and (of course) Texas show up, armed, to peacefully march or something. The local press will treat it like an armed invasion. People will be fleeing to the outer boroughs with their children and backpacks full of water and canned goods. But the local system cannot accommodate that number of mass arrests, so...

I don't know. I think it's going to be really interesting. And how ironic would it be if this, of all things, turns out to be the thing that causes liberals to rally try and secede.

Hell_Is_Like_Newark said...


My wife was scrolling through her friend's posts on Facebook (Thais that have moved o the USA). She turned to me and said, "my friend sure love socialism" commenting on how her friends were all staunchly anti-Trump & pro socialist.

Mind you.. these people are all professionals from the top levels of Thai society.

Immigration both legal and illegal needs to be seriously curtailed. We not longer have assimilation into the American culture. The mindset of self determination with limited government is very unique in the world. The Founders took what was developed in places like the Dutch Republic and England, kicking the concept of liberty up a few more notches. Most of the world lives in various levels of tyranny and corruption. We don't need that here.

ikaika said...

Tom, if it happens at or before Easter that would be amazing. If there is a march on NYC or Chicago or Seattle, they won't need NRA members from the south; I'm sure there are enough fed-up Americans in the respective metro areas that would willingly assemble.

Hell is like Newark, I find it surprising that Thai immigrants would embrace or aspire towards socialism. But I agree that immigration needs to be curtailed and regimented. This isn't the 19th century or early 20th century where we needed to expand the labor force or settle the american west.

Muzzlethemuz said...

Close it down. Time for a breather. We can make an exception for those with exceptional skill sets & what-have-you but a ten year break or some such thing is just what the doctor ordered.

(Not trying to steer the thread off topic, just can't stress enough what a disaster I see in the masses that are huddled where I live from parts south of the border.)

Blegoo said...

@ikaika: For every "...supposedly "educated" or the top percentile immigrants..." we get 2 that remember what's like when only the gubermint agents have guns. True, those are not vocal, but they count.
@Hell_Is_Like_Newark: See above, not feeling like c/p.
Everybody: USA is the ONLY nation/country which mandates the right to keep and bear arms.
Not getting away.